Avatar brian.peat asked

Is this really a good idea?

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts.

From a site builder stand point Yootheme Pro has me scratching my head.

As far as I can tell, you create a basic skeleton using Joomla, blank articles with menu items, and then go into the template and add ALL CONTENT THERE, which then drops loads of short codes (commented out so you can't see them with the editor turned on) into the article itself.

While I get how nice it is to have layouts, this pretty much bypasses much of the joomla interface. I feel like I'm using one of those wordpress page builders that drops tons of short code into the editor, only this isn't accessible from the article itself, you MUST go into the template edit area to work on your page content.

I almost wish this had been released as a page builder component instead of rolled into the (several clicks deep) template editor.

I have to be honest, I may be building sites in Warp 7 for a while longer than I thought until I can get my head around this and figure out if it's good for my clients or not.

EDIT: Moving my feature request from my other post over here:
While I get what you're doing here, it really should have been done as a component. Since that's not likely to happen, I'd suggest creating an admin module that can be customized (in case there's more than one template installed) that basically puts a large button in the admin area that links RIGHT to the website builder.

Otherwise admins have to click quite a few times just to get into the editing area.

Second request? Make a text editor button that will open the Website builder to the article you're currently editing. This would make things MUCH easier if you're already used to editing in Joomla's article editor.

  • Joomla
  • YOOtheme Pro

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31 Answers

3

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

UPDATE

We just released YOOtheme Pro 1.2 which improves the Joomla workflow.

  • Launch the page builder inside the Joomla article editor
  • Edit unpublished articles or articles which are not link in the menu
  • Frontend editing for pages including the page builder

An essential addition in this release is the page builder button that you can find in Joomla's article editor. Now, you can just launch the page builder from the Joomla article edit view and it really opens nothing but the page builder and none of the other theme settings. That way, you can enable your clients to add their own content without giving them access to the actual theme settings. In addition to that, this also allows you to edit unpublished articles or articles which are not linked in the menu. It is now possible to modify pages in the frontend and even launch the page builder. When you're logged in, an "Edit" button will appear on your page and you're good to go.

We added also the feature to launch the website builder from the Joomla control panel

Regarding some other questions raised: The page builder is completely optional! No need to use it, if you don't like it. But I definitely recommend to give it a try. I personally can't imagine to build a site without. And don't have any technical doubts. It's really a great implementation.

Also here is a comprehensive answer to some concerns which were raised regarding the builder.

Note for everyone else: Please open a new support thread for your feedback. I'm happy to answer it. Otherwise this is becoming chaotic...

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29

Avatar softforge answered

Mixing Joomla Content and style is breaking so many fundamental rules that have stood us in good stead over the years.

I have managed to get the new yootheme pro working and when I took it for a spin I was impressed with a lot of the template features. BUT when we get to the builder part I just could not understand why you have mixed content and style, placing the style inside the content!!

The beauty of Joomla is the ability to use so many different third party extensions to work on the content. As a site building company with clients ranging from small shops to large universities and multinational companies, we have always sought to make sound sites relying on the strengths of the extensions we use. We all stick to the framework we are building upon, move with the improvements and everyone benefits.

But this will break and render unusable so many third party products by mixing the style with the content.

It will make choosing between a traditional template that affects the way content is shown to a template system that rewrites the content to make it work.

I run the London Joomla user group and opinion is always split on which template is the best. I have for the last 9 years put my faith in yootheme and built all our sites around yootheme. UIKIT has been a great product and we have used it extensively.

But this mixing of the content with the style, it fundamentally changes the way we would have to use joomla, it will force us into a yootheme eccentric world cutting the choice of third party extensions that could be used and tie us in to being dependant on yootheme.

I think such a fundamental shift should have been shared, the waters tested. Had you given a rough outline of how you intended to do it you would have got the feedback and perhaps not gone this way. As Brian said, a component that stores the details in a separate table. The ability to use it if wanted but not where its not needed would have been great.

I will like others be sitting back from the hype and watching what will settle. We were going to do a few simple sites with the new system but we will instead continue with warp 7 and at the next London meeting have a debate amongst all the developers there.
I do feel this is the wrong way to go and for that I am truly saddened as I have been using yootheme since 2007, almost got to our 10th anniversary!

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11

Avatar sandstorm871 answered

Everything Brian wrote in his initial post here, are exactly the same thoughts running through my head right now.
It feels like YooTheme Pro a wordpress type, website building component at the moment.
While Buttons for editing & accessing YooTheme pro, will make things run a bit nicer, I don't like the way almost everything is done in the page builder.

I was starting to really love Warp7, Customiser, Uikit & at the same time having a good dive around in Joomla.

I too will be sticking with Warp7 for a while longer to see what evolves in the coming weeks & months, but fear that I will also need to go and take a look at other frameworks.

Testing the Joomla version of YooTheme pro, I feel like its going to be a few months before we get a really useable version, that works well, is documented, can be used on a clients site & links in with Widgetkit, etc

I feel that YooTheme maybe should have kept this wrapped up, and released a couple more Warp7 Themes, while they integrated Widgetkit & wrote up some documentation.

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10

Avatar brian.peat answered

I do still keep my RT account, but haven't had time to learn Gantry 5 yet. Been holding off and sticking with Warp 7 templates for the last few years. I guess it's time to look at RT again.

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Avatar bruno.hoffman answered

A long time customer of yootheme confused and frustrated with YooTheme Pro.

Heading to Joomla Worldwide Conference in Vancouver Nov 11 - 13, 2106 to find a better template provider.

YouTheme Pro is confusing and frustrating to use. Cannot find any tutorials or help. Cannot change content. Crashes google PageSpeed Insights tool.

Too bad. I loved the old proven framework and design by the talented YooTheme team.

I hope they reconsider.

Bruno

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Avatar jgowans answered

Wait, wait... I've not touched this new product, and I'm hearing that users must go into the "template itself" to edit content? Uummm... does that mean that users have access to the entire template settings or can pagebuilder be restricted to users based on Joomla's ACLs? I'm really scratching my head on this as I cannot imagine sending users of all different skill levels into the template to update content.

5

Avatar donnie.l.rollins answered

We are disappointed like so many others on the forums. Its sad really YOOtheme should really listen to their customers.

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Avatar brian.peat answered

After working in this a bit more, while I get where it's headed, I think it's a BIG mistake not using fields to store the content of the page builder. It's just too easy for an admin user to break an entire page because they edited visible text in the text editor. I think you really need to rethink this and add a small component when you install a template (doesn't T3 do this?). That way you have access to field data for the page builder.

I know you're trying to stay as clean as possible and not get into table data, but the result is something that is much too easily broken by someone editing an article. You've created a page builder, embrace that and make a component to go with it.

4

Avatar cappu answered

Sascha,

Yootheme Pro seems to follow a very progressive approach. I appreciate your courage. Things like this brings all of us further!

I know there is no final documentation yet, but we users and CTOs need to figure out on how to deal with the situation.

I am wondering if storing style data and widget text in shortcodes (guess they will be unvisible to search engine robots) to the text field of the Joomla article does have a negative effect on SEO, Accessibility and W3C standards?

@Sascha: I am sure you discussed things like this in your team. Could you give us some insights on your point of view?

Thanks very much and kind regards

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Avatar juan123de answered

Just tested it! Its very nice but by now I think Pro is only good for simple websites like the ones you can build online for free. Its like a paralel system to Joomla... Warp gives us as agency much more posibilities to fullfill special wishes of our clients! CAN YOU OFFER BOTH? Warp and Pro? That would be a good solution!

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Avatar adam.behan.16 answered

I would also like to know, if I should start looking for new template provider. I don’t want to use Pro version. I would like to use product I've paid for, and I paid to new WARP style every month. When I bought subscription I didn’t get any info – “In few months we will Implement completely new and buggy system with no documentation and will stop providing new Warp pages”. I would reconsider spending money for subscription then. Regardless of that I need to know If you will be providing “old” pages as usual or this will be permanent decision and I (and based on previous posts not only me) need to start searching for alternative.

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3

Avatar niall.sheehan answered

It's broken 10 minutes after installing the Demo and trying to add a module to the side bar. At this point the new Site Builder just sits there with the wait icon spinning away, no errors. Started and stopped the server as well as reloading the browser, tried a different browser, it's still 'stuck'. And due to the overly complex way of hiding the actual settings, troubleshooting is going to suck.

There does not seem to be a way of creating a new layout (the Warp version allowed you to quickly copy a style to a new name/folder).

I'm not impressed and likely will not continue to go forward with Yootheme as a result of this change in the direction of the business.

Long wait, big letdown.

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Avatar peter.russell.64 answered

Hi Yootheme
Yet to try out Yootheme Pro, mainly because at launch I understood that it was early days and I could not deliver a site without most of Widgetkit 2's functionality. And then seeing the feedback I am really worried that the direction is not where I thought we were heading when we were asked for WARP 8 requirements (which this is).

So how does this list (see below) that arose from this exercise, match up with Yootheme Pro deliverables?

Cheers Peter

Here is a list of all features you suggested:

Mentioned very often

Simpler customizer (Faster to find stuff, better global variables)  
Mega menus  
Warp 7 compatibility (Update older themes)  
Favicon picker (Update proof)  
1-Click updates

Mentioned often

Easier customizations (Update proof, lesser use of FTP)  
Faster, better performance + compression  
Configurable header layout (Options for Logo, Navbar)  
Open Graph / Rich Snippets  
Page Builder (Easier layouting without coding)

Mentioned several times

Better theme admin translation  
Better white labeling themes  
Different article layouts out of the box  
Social sharing buttons (Enable one by one and for each article)  
Sidebar menus with flyouts  
More general theme options which are the same from theme to theme  
Easier integration of custom fonts  
Cookie info  
Google font subsets (greek,cyrilic etc)

Mentioned at least once

More social profile icons  
Better documentation  
PHP 7 compatiblitity  
Lazy loading images  
404 page with header and footer  
Make update notifications available in the Joomla updater (not just when you go to the theme)  
More layout options (Fullscreen, Wrapped)  
Option for text instead of hamburger menu  
More Show/Hide options for Wordpress (like Joomla)

and much more...

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Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

@peter.russell.64 I opened a wish list for YOOtheme Pro thread where you can find an answer to what we have accomplished from the Warp 8 wish list (nearly all feature requests).

I think, there are 3 important things missing for most members:

  1. All Widgetkit features (all widgets + content provider + the availably as module)
  2. More module positions (but we need a discussion which and why they are needed)
  3. The option to launch just the page builder from an article (to target workfow and ACL)

We will solve these 3 things soon.

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Avatar malc answered

Like a lot of other people I haven't installed a Pro site to play with this. My main concern, like many others, is that this is a new direction for YOOtheme and does not look like it will easily co-exist with Joomla, so why waste the effort.

I don't really want to learn a new way of working with Joomla, I just want cool, feature rich, templates that YOOtheme was known as a leader in.

I have several sites I'm planning to upgrade and I chose the Monday theme, which I though was the best work in 2016. It remains to be seen if any further Joomla templates are forthcoming, or is this a fork in the road for YOOtheme.

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Avatar robert.gabriel answered

I agree with the reviews and inform you that I am not happy with yootheme pro. I paid for a theme per month on warp framework.

I hope you will reconsider your decision and go back.

I do not renew my subscription under these conditions.

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Avatar juan123de answered

Is there any chance you change your mind and produce Warp and Pro templates side by side? Please reconsider! Thanks! Pro is a system for your potential new clients looking for simple solutions. Lots of your exisiting clients are small agencies and we need something like Warp!

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Avatar brian.peat answered

This is good news. I wonder too how you might deal with front end editing. Right now it seems to be disabled in the template, but I guess a button would also take care of that.

But thank you for posting that. The only thing that is missing after that is a faster way to get into the editor from the back end control panel, either through a module or eventually adding a component view for it.

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Avatar brian.peat answered

This thread really wasn't for error or glitch complaints, it's about the concept and workflow they've created.

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Avatar webkonturen answered

@sandstorm871 wrote:

Testing the Joomla version of YooTheme pro, I feel like its going to be a few months before we get a really useable version, that works well, is documented, can be used on a clients site & links in with Widgetkit, etc

I love Widgetkit and it's so comfortable, when you get used to it. What a pitty, that the developers of Yootheme Pro could not anticipate, what their customers want. Hopefully Yootheme will survive this!

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Avatar adamo answered

guys.. you must be kidding with that short codes content :D

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Avatar marco.mohaded answered

Okay, let me be clear. YooTheme PRO is GREAT. I see a lot of potential, but I agree with a lot of things said here. The dynamic content our customers adds should be considered here...

I'm assuming most of the things people have problems with will be solved with the integration of widgetkit (and also integrated with the Joomla core components).

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Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

Yes, sure, having a button in each article to launch the page builder is a great idea. It just didn't made it into the first release because it is a little more work. But it will definitely be added :-)

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Avatar robert.brandes answered

I still cannot get 1.0.1 to run without giving an error on line 39 displayed on the front side. looks like much more testing was necessary. I even tried the demo package same error. while I expected problems, no code is without errors, the ones today were out-of-the-box errors. I hope Yootheme continues to provide ready to use templates monthly. I am not looking to build every template myself.

Long wait, big letdown.

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Avatar craig.kennedy answered

Not a fan, confusing, far from Intuitive, sorry I think pro is a failure

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Avatar jwellman answered

Just coming to YooTheme and reading about all the changes...

I have been a member since 2010 and have 29 days left in my developer package. I trying to figure out if renewing is a wise thing to do. So is Warp going bye-bye? I'm sick just thinking about all my sites currently using it and the fact that all of them might need to be re-vamped to suit YooTheme's changes.

So confused why they would have taken this route. I guess I'll have to download pro to see what the uproar is about.

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Avatar oncue answered

YES...Not a fan. And takes longer to update content in articles.....

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Avatar webnmoregals answered

does not suit our business and will need to look for other template provider, pitty! loved yootheme templates, bring them back

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Avatar arnas.kavaliauskas answered

I think you should stop with this, when this is not gone too far. Or create your own CMS.

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