Avatar morgan.gustafsson asked

Our main concerns with Yootheme PRO

First, we have used Yootheme templates and Warp for many, many years and love them! UIKit is our favorite framework, Widgetkit our best friend and we follow the progress of Pagekit closely :-) And we know you have been working hard on Yootheme PRO.

Well, after testing Yootheme PRO for a while were sorry to say that we are a bit disappointed and have quite a few concerns that will prevent us from using it:

1. It doesnt (yet?) support dynamic content
Would love to see some integration with Zoo, something like whats done with Widgetkit or Zoo Item PRO or better...

2. Tweaking is hard or impossible
If you just want to add a custom class to a specific element, lets say a title in a panel, thats not possible. Sure you could add a class to the entire panel container but not to one single element.

3. Language support is lacking?
How does it run with language support? Havent figured that one out yet.

4. Akward process of creating new page
Create a blank article, create menu, go over to template, open the tool, layout the page, populate with content.

5. Joomla articles and shortcodes just doesnt feel right.
Sure, the generated pages needs to be saved somewhere but this doesnt feel right, at least not for us. Yes, this is a subjective opinion and mostly based on emotions but those still matter, right :-)

6. Content editors will get access to template settings and more
If we only ever want them to be able to change the content thats not possible.

7. Content overview
We find it much harder to find the content we need to change using the page builder.

8. Cannot optimize images for different devices
We cannot select different images for different devices.

It would have been great if we had been given the opportunity to give feedback on Yootheme PRO early on. It's nice looking and probably great for people not used to coding, but for us it's of almost no use :-(

Let me briefly explain how our current setup is working so you better can understand why this is not a step forward for us.

We have all content in Zoo apps such as Pages, Products, Company, Courses, Forms, Clients and so on. We and our clients love them! For them it's really easy to a find, edit and create content and even create more advanced functionalities like forms. They dont have to worry about the design or coding and its a super fast and safe way for them and us to work. And everything is in one place with a great overview and lots of search and filtering capabilities.

We then use Zoo, Widgetkit or Zoo Item Pro from Zoolanders with our own customizations to display the content. We have a lot of different renderers for each type and you can select what one you need from the module. You could also configure how the content should be displayed on different devices directly in the module.

An example, the client adds a new staff member (name, title, contactinfo, photo) and links it to a office and a page about a certain topic for which he will be the contact person as well as categorize him as working with sales support. This takes less than a minute to do, no kidding. We then display him on the page using any of the 10 or so different renderers we have prebuilt for staff. The renderers creates 5 different versions of the photo to fit all different device sizes, it's configured in the module how to rearrange the items for each breakpoint, if we select a renderer with a form hook clicking the staff memeber will show a from in a modal than once submitted will send him an email or if we set the wrapper to be a dynamic grid that also works. All this is reusable and when we need to customize it we can do that really easily by editing the renderer php file. If you review the list above, none of the issues listed there applies to our current setup.


We strongly believe in seperating content and design, and keeping renderers/templates clean and editable. That allows us as developers to reuse code and work faster and smarter and at the same time keep it simple as possible for our customers. And it is so much faster than doing/trying to do the same with Yootheme PRO

  • YOOtheme Pro

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45 Answers

23

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

Thanks, this feedback is really welcome :-)

First of all let me say, YOOtheme Pro is a completely new product/theme/framework. It is the initial release and is in early stages. We implemented a core feature set and it will start to grow from now on like all our products did. We are continuously working on it, it will have monthly feature updates and feedback like yours is very welcome to improve it.

When you create a new software like YOOtheme Pro you have to define a initial feature set. You can't do everything and built a "Swiss army knife" in no-time. We know exactly which features are missing, and we can say, they will all come to YOOtheme Pro :-) Don't forget we are overhauling our entire UIkit framework, which is also a tremendous workload. We do all this to make everything better for our customers.

So lets go through your list:

1. It's on our todo list
Sure, YOOtheme Pro will implement all features Widgetkit has soon. Content provider for the page builder elements are also a good idea.

2. Solved ✓
You can add an ID or class to a section, a row or an element (the 3 types the builder consist of). Currently there are no fields for special classes within larger elements like panels. But it is on our todo list. Currently it's the same like in Widgetkit. Marked solved for now, but we have some ideas to improve it in the future.

3. Solved ✓
We tested Joomlas native multi-language feature and it works perfect like with YOOtheme Pro.

4. Solved ✓
YOOtheme Pro 1.2 added the feature to launch the page builder inside the Joomla article editor.

5. Solved ✓
YOOtheme Pro saves data into a Json object (exactly like Widgetkit and ZOO) at the article. It's the right place and automatically enables the search, multi-language and versioning. Could be hidden for users in the future (if Joomla offers a better place to save it at the article).

6. Solved ✓
YOOtheme Pro 1.2 added the feature to launch the page builder inside the Joomla article editor. ACL works as expected.

7. Solved ✓
YOOtheme Pro 1.2 added the feature to launch the page builder inside the Joomla article editor. It allows you to edit unpublished articles or articles which are not linked in the menu. Marked solved

8. Solved ✓
YOOtheme Pro already comes with srcset support out of the box. So all image you are adding are automatically available in different resolutions. Marked solved, as long as you don't support for the picture element? We can add this easily...

Now is the perfect time to give feedback ;-)

Ok, I understand how you use ZOO. We will add a ZOO content provider for builder elements, for sure. Please remember: The page builder is just for unique content pages. It's not a replacement for a catalog system like ZOO. We have also plans to make all elements off the page builder available as module which can load ZOO content, etc. This is release is just the beginning...

Please give it a try before jumping to conclusions. The YOOtheme Pro framework is very powerful and you can do everything you want with it. It's just in the wild for two days ;-)

I hope may answers gave you a little more insight about the future :-) I'm really looking forward to your answer...

Note for everyone else: Please do not hijack this thread. If you have other feedback please open a new support thread, so this one can stay on point.

UPDATE 1

We just released Widgetkit 2.9 which works with YOOtheme Pro. With this release, we have applied a noconflict mode that prevents issues previously arising from these different versions. So now you can use both in the same installation and add widgets, like a Slideshow, to your modules/widgets and articles. Also be aware that, since different versions of UIkit are being loaded, your theme's style won't affect Widgetkit. It always applies the default UIkit 2 style to its widgets.

UPDATE 2

We just released YOOtheme Pro 1.2 which improves the Joomla workflow.

  • Launch the page builder inside the Joomla article editor
  • Edit unpublished articles or articles which are not link in the menu
  • Frontend editing for pages including the page builder

An essential addition in this release is the page builder button that you can find in Joomla's article editor. Now, you can just launch the page builder from the Joomla article edit view and it really opens nothing but the page builder and none of the other theme settings. That way, you can enable your clients to add their own content without giving them access to the actual theme settings. In addition to that, this also allows you to edit unpublished articles or articles which are not linked in the menu. It is now possible to modify pages in the frontend and even launch the page builder. When you're logged in, an "Edit" button will appear on your page and you're good to go.

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27

Avatar jgowans answered

Responding here though I believe similar points were raised here https://yootheme.com/support/question/102882 as well. First and foremost, it's obvious that Yootheme is extremely talented. It's why we all love them and use their products! Having said that, and as nice as Pro is, I am unable to overcome the fundamental decision to basically decouple the theme and widgetkit from Joomla.

To put it bluntly, we already have a "pagebuilder"... it's called "Joomla", and it's a powerful way to mix content, modules, components, etc. in such a way as to build a compelling site. In the case of Pro, you've limited our ability to do that. As an example, some components are not "pages" (thinking big ones like shopping carts or CRM's), so leveraging the power of widgetkit in modules located in positions throughout a page and site is now either not possible or extremely cumbersome at best. Pro forces sites to adopt the Yoo-ecosystem, which may not always be realistic or desirable. For example, 20% of our clients use WidgetKit, but not a Yootheme template. Because WK is now bundled in Pro, this isn't possible (yes, we can continue using WK2, I get that. But the point that Pro is less flexible for client work remains valid). As providers, our job is to determine client needs and apply the best solutions. Pro feels like solutions are being forced on us. While I'm on this vein, I have to say that it's very disappointing to send users into a template that's branded Yootheme. I know I'm picky, but providers like me work hard to build relationships. If we want to peddle other branded solutions from B2B providers, then we'd all be selling Square Space to clients. Picky, I know, but it matters.

I also don't understand (yet) how you'll work around ACLs. In more complicated sites, users may have access to any one or all of the following: articles, modules, components and templates. With Pro, users (currently) have access to template settings (that's a disaster waiting to happen). In the future, will you restrict their ability to manipulate modules? Even now, we have the ability to restrict users from WidgetKit itself. That's often a good idea because, quite honestly, as nice as WK is, not everyone can manage it. Not everyone is a designer and, given too much power, can make a beautiful mess of things. That seems unavoidable with Pro.

Yootheme has promoted Pro as allowing users to "Build a beautiful website within minutes", and I think it can do just that. But for sites that use components and user levels extensively, and that focus on diverse and flexible content, it seems to miss the mark big time. I understand that, for many providers, Pro will be exactly what they need. For others, like us, that provide for clients that run large, complex sites, it's not a good fit (yet). I want to stress that we're building sites here... not pages... In my opinion, the template should support this process, not dominate it.

Please take that feedback as constructive. We've been a long time user of Yoo for about 1/2 our client base over the years. I would love to see that grow, but honestly, I see us phasing Yoo out given the needs of our clients as well as how we're positioned to support them.

Respectively,

Josh

24

Avatar moloseb answered

I think what you forgot is that a lot of your customers are small/medium agencies developing sites that their end customer will later manage.
Unfortunately in it's actual configuration Yootheme is NOT a B2B product, it is is a new B2C product (for tech-advanced user)
I don't know if that is what you had in mind, but I think that is the main reason why you are getting so much negative comments on that product.

Let me try to explain:
In my opinion The biggest Problem is that Yootheme Pro is not end-customer safe:

Over 95% of our customers wants us to design their website and they just want to be able to update it regularly easily and quickly, just like they are able to update their social network account. ( They don't want to manage sections and rows etc... )

The websites we create are to be content-managed by our end customer. (which is the argument of using a cms like joomla or WP in the first place)
For that purpose, Yootheme PRO is, in my eyes, simply not usable, because you mix content and layout too much. It is not possible to change one without accessing the other.
It is way to extensive to teach it to a end-customer and not configurable enough to clearly define what elements the end-customer has access to and what not. The customer should be able to edit the content and only the content, not the layout. Again: that's why he asked us in the first place.

For example: we would define a section with a background image, two rows containing each one image left and one text element right.
The end-customer should be able to change the text and to switch for another image, and that's all.
Too easily the end user could ruin the whole page design we carefully created. Now, with pro, in two clicks he has deleted the whole row.
Next step, he calls us and we have to redo / reload / reexplain everything => lost of time and money

As it is now, we can only use Pro for websites for own usage or for websites we are sure the end customer will not change the content itself, which is in our case 2-5% of our work.
I'm not sure but I think that most of your customers are small/medium agencies which had more or less the same way of working:
Taking one of your templates,
adapting it to their customer's need and wishes, defining the various elements
setting up modules to show up on the various pages and/ or screen sizes
setting up the access so the end customer can just use the article editor and / or zoo,
Get payed; move on to next project
Do backups and core updates regularly
Every once in a while change/modernize the layout.

Now we'll have to change our way of working and non-stop be available to support our customer for every small change they want because it is too much for them to learn the whole yootheme functioning.
For us, it will take 10 min, so we'll not invoice that, but 10 min for every customer, every day, sums up.

Don't get me wrong, pro has nice features and has surely had lots of reflexion on it, but I'm not sure if the right ones ( for your B2B customers )
I don't see it (yet) as a tool that will make us win time. Somehow it is a redundancy; putting a CMS/CCK in the template of another CMS. This way of constructing pages is already not easy to get for pros, imagine for end-customers. It will need a lot of explanation, just imagine you explaining to a customer:
"First login, then create an article, but don't write anything in it, then go to the menu manager, link to that idle article, then go to template manager, then go to builder to edit what will be shown into that article you created in the first place..."
It already sounds messy, is in the end more complicated to explain than showing how to use zoo:
"Login, choose the zoo app that we carefully created/arranged for your needs and that you want to add an item to, click add item, fill the fields, save, done."

In my opinion, the template editor should do what it is called, edit the template, and just the template:
Define page layouts, and styles, rows, sections; positions and whatever you call it, but NOT have the content done inside it.

A solution would be to separate both and have a dedicated component (Yootheme PRO - Content)
That component would closely work with the template manager, recognize the positions, sections, rows and elements that i have defined there, and allow the end user to fill content in those sections, rows and elements, but not let him redefine them or delete them.

Of course you can say that the template builder is optional and that one can just continue to use zoo and or the article editor to create dynamic content; but then one cannot use the builder on those pages . That makes using yootheme pro nearly a non-sense, as it is then far less complete than your old templates.

Another frustrating point is that for years now your customer's have been asking (begging) for updates and new functions in ZOO but nothing has been achieved / proposed /showed / announced. ( except it's portability to joomla 3 ), but that's another sad thread worth.

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Avatar oystein.thune answered

If need a site builder to create a website I think maybe I will use Wordpress and Divi or a WP template with Visual Composer. I think template providers now forget why we professionals prefer Joomla over Wordpress. It's the flexibility in the menu, articles and modules framework. This combination is Joomla's "site builder" and it's already great....much better than Wordpress. Then we can layout our content without clutter. We can easily change template and reassign module positions and have a brand new site! For me upgrading from Warp 6 to a Warp 7 template was a breeze. Yes, I am a Warp 7 fan. Why?

Because Joomla is already great doing what it does best, where we can build websites fast with the help of the menus, articles and modules. This is much faster than any layout builder out there. Much faster than Wordpress. So in my opinion it's all about making Joomla even greater.

I think Joomlart are on to something. Not with the upcoming JA Builder, but with the JA Simpli template that should be integrated with Joomla as the default template. There I can easily modify som presets or layouts very fast for the template and user menu, articles and modules the good old Joomla way.

Of course Joomla also needs a a good site/page builder but how Yootheme pro works now it's not ready. JA Simpli is one of the smartest templates in the Joomla community right now for fast website creations. Yootheme should look at that concept for Yootheme pro.

In the template you setup the WEBSITE LAYOUT with the sidebars and module positions, font settings etc. and for me right now that's enought. Yootheme could have the same setup and in each article you access a "simple and fast PAGE LAYOUT builder. Because my customers should not be able to mess with sitewide settings (set in the page template). If you can do this Yootheme Pro will be a success. For me I don't understand why template providers don't change the whole wysiwyg editor.

It's the editor that's the problem with to much options (I'm haven't time to configure the editor for each project). The editor could be much simpler with a page layout system integrated. Make a much cooler and simpler editor with page builder and not just put a page builder button that opens an new window like everyone else.

In Wordpress Divi I have to label every element, and that's not very userfriendly. When I open an article in admin I would like to be able to see and read and edit. Not have to click on another button and open another editor! I know this is coming in the frontend editor, but it would cool to be able to let users into the admin area also.

I think the problem here is that you are creating something that should work on all plattforms (Joomla, Pagekit, Wordpress...) and then you really can't get the best out of Joomla.

My recommedation:
Keep up the good work on Yootheme Pro - you aren't there yet but I think you can be if you don't forget about why we use Joomla in the first place...
But while we wait....upgrade Warp7 to Warp 8 with all new UIKIT3 goodies and Widgetkit (which is great!) and a cooler mobile with more options for layout, show/hide multiple menu levels and you have a winner!! Because we are Joomla users and Warp combines the best of Joomla with a great framework. It's all about speed. Google pagespeed (I don't want to load 30 css files and 30 js scripts in the header), it's about building website speed (take advantage of the excellent Joomla menu, articles and module system), and how fast the customer can edit their content!

Regards
Øystein

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16

Avatar messagedj answered

I really don't get it why Yootheme decided to dramatically changed the way we like to work. I am working on the Pro theme now for the first time, it took me 2 days to make something that i regularly do in 2 hours.

Why Yootheme to removed the positions?? It would had been nice to have an option at the installation, either use templates the old skool way (like we like), or use the Pro.

We don't have another option then walk over to another template supplier if Pro stays like this.

EDIT: after 2,5 days i removed the Pro template and switched back to the Warp7 Luna... what a relief !website is done by tomorrow...

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Avatar greg.atkinson.4 answered

I feel like this recent change was meant more for Pagekit than it was Joomla. I understand that development costs would necessitate this approach, if you want Pagekit to become popular the features in Pro are a great start...

...but for the customers who joined because of the Joomla/WP themes, customers like us who build large sites...being locked into a template by virtue of how content is handled is unacceptable. It will result in us choosing other template providers for new sites because of uncertainty and risk, which will eventually mean we cease renewals with YooTheme.

Although the new templates will certainly be beautiful and functional, we flock to YooTheme for how it integrates with the CMS of our choice. We don't want or need a replacement, and we certainly don't want a proprietary layer. I'm hesitant enough to use Widgetkit in a production site when UIKit offers suitable alternatives, there's no way I can justify using Pro...even if it functions smoothly.

Long live Warp7.

13

Avatar coldclimber answered

I to am perplexed by this dramatic and somewhat crazy new template system, warp was amazing, simple quick and easy to manipulate into what you wanted. I have been a member of yootheme since 2007 and it looks like this could the end of what was a great relationship. Using pro is not sustainable or practical.

I have used fuse and wow it is not easy, i can not put modules where i want them there are no positions or very few within the template, all three new pro templates are basically the same, your work flow on creating new templates for your subscribers must have dropped significantly, I mean what is the difference?? Fuse, Horizon and Max, because i am not seeing anything different apart from images.

I noticed an update to fuse so i thought ok i will update the template only to find that the design and layout i have done were removed and had to spend another hour trying to find all the dam areas to fix the site to how it was before, now this morning there is another update, your kidding right yeh i think i will skip that one.

I juts dont get it, i loved yootheme everything worked and was a pleasure to work with. Just signed up to Joomlart.com now. sad days ahead for yootheme.

12

Avatar drpeeling answered

I am really disappointed with YoothemePro where i loose nerves, time and may way of working.
I was a great client of yootheme as widgetkit really excellent but with this YoothemePro i will not renew anymore my membership.
You should offer in fact with your new templates 2 options:
1- your new CMS way
2- the way I am used to work with Yootheme

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Avatar luis.encuentra answered

Hi guys.

At first, sorry about my english....

I'm web designer as too many of us here on Yootheme forums. I sell my job to clients, and they pay for "unique" and "handmade-hardwork" websites. Due to this, last 2 years with Warp templates I rename all "Yootheme" refereces on all template documents.

Today, after 2 days trying to remove all Yootheme traces on YooTheme Pro, I give up. Almost done, no errors installing template extension, but I got an error loading framework.

Proposal: As I read from another user, please, please, please, build a feature about 1-2 clicks to remove all Yootheme words to be able to resell our work, if not, we can not use new Yootheme Pro and we will be stucked on Warp templates.

If you can't do this, release Warp version of Yootheme Pro "templates" to work with Warp templates.

Thank you for your time. Hope and answer.

Bump please, dont let this message to be forgotten.

Thank you.

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9

Avatar rocksack answered

In addition to the post of moloseb: YOOTHEME, PLEASE THINK ABOUT YOUR RESELLER- / AGENCY-CUSTOMERS!
We can not use yootheme Pro! Our End-Customers should be able to edit content, add News,... the most easiest way (Frontend-Editing preferred)! We can't tell our customers, that they have to go to the backend (to the template!!!) to edit or add content!

We've payed for a year but we can only use "the old Warp7" templates. Now we have to look for a alternative to yootheme as "template-dealer"... :-(
Hoping for a change...

8

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

Thanks for getting back :-) Here are some things I forgot to notice and some updates:

Regarding 2. There is a HTML element which is similar to a custom HTML module. So if you want, you can use the builder for the sections and grids but code everything by hand in the elements and add your needed ID/classes.

Regarding 3. We just checked it. Multi-language will work as you are used to the Joomla article. Just the Launch Page Builder button is missing. For the theme settings, navigate in the right preview to the article you want to edit (so you see the article in the language you want) and just use the builder. Regarding Falang, we have to look into it.

We also just checked versioning for the articles. Works great. You can even see a diff of the changed page builder settings.

Regarding 5. You can add custom elements to the page builder through child themes. Elements are just a set of options and a template file like you want. Similar like in ZOO. Here we started the documentation for the child themes.

Think of the page builder like ZOOs new, little brother. It solves the problem of creating unique, custom pages. It's not a replacement, it complements your tools.

Here is some background info why we started with the page builder:

We think in our previous themes we had a design flaw in general. We used the module position for creating custom pages. For example we had Top A, Top B, Bottom A, Bottom B, etc And sometimes, if needed for specific pages, even C, D, E, ... There was also an option to Hide System Output because of that. So you can build a page just with module positions. All this is historically grown and we think it is a dead end. The new page builder lets you create unlimited sections and you don't need the module positions anymore. It's like an editor to create this stuff. If you look at WordPress (which hasn't a strong module system like Joomla), things went into a different direction. They have a lot of page builders.

@jgowans: YOOtheme Pro does not work with Widgetkit. You really have to disable Widgetkit. If you don't want to use the page builder just create articles like before. For further discussion, please open your own support thread. I'm happy to answer.

@impactdesign: It has no effect on SEO. You can code all the markup by hand or through our page builder. The end result is the same. I just want to point out, that our page builder is really lightweight and not bloated! It's the same markup I would have coded by hand. For further discussion, please open your own support thread. I'm happy to answer.

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8

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

@jgowans

There seems a complete misunderstanding here. You will be able to do everything you can do with Warp 7 and Widgetkit with YOOtheme Pro too in the near future. We stated everywhere that all Widgetkit features will be implemented in YOOtheme Pro. At the moment the main issue is that Widgetkit 2 (built with UIkit 2) doesn't work with YOOtheme Pro (UIkit 3) because you can't use both UIkits at the same time. This is why we have to rebuild Widgetkit for UIkit 3. And we are not just porting it to UIkit 3, we are going to make it much better and implement our ideas we have for Widgetkit 3. And of course this will be integrated into the new YOOtheme Pro ecosystem.

Second, no one is abandoning Joomla modules. For single pages we often built our demo content using custom HTML modules which are only used on that specific page. Therefore, we also added the option to hide the system output. That's not a good way. Much better is a page builder to create the content. This doesn't mean we are not supporting Joomla modules in the future. Every time you need a module on more than one page, you should use a Joomla module. And of course, like in Widgetkit, we will support it with great features.

I think the discussion is going in the wrong direction. We are not going to make it harder for you to build websites and we are not taking anything away from you. This is just a completely new system which needs some time to grow. Just remember the first steps of Warp or Widgetkit and how they have evolved over time. We are working on so many great features which will be pushed in the near future.

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7

Avatar orsat.munitic answered

My main concern with Yootheme Pro is that its designed in a way that if you ever want to switch your template provider and have a large site you would basically have to recreate the whole site from the beginning.

The Json object saving issue is just another programming choice that's questionable...many seem to prefer serverside generated HTML

One last thing, is there going to be a new template in November or are we getting the same as in October ?

6

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

@orsat.munitic

  1. That's not really true. The builder creates UIkit markup. At the moment, you can copy the markup anytime from the frontend. So, you can easily switch your theme (like before with Warp 7) to any other UIkit 3 theme. Also, we can easily add a button "Builder to Markup" to convert any (or all) builder pages. It's not implemented at the moment because it was to risky. It would be one way (and always will be) and users could destroy their builder markup.

  2. That's not true. ZOO does it. Widgetkit does it. And it was never in question. It's a common pattern to do so. I don't get what you mean by "serverside generated HTML" because the builder actually generates the HTML on the server side. It is perfectly templated.

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6

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

@guido.volkmann

  1. Not true, we check Joomlas native multi-language feature and it works. We will look into 3rd party stuff soon, too. Or do you mean translations for YOOtheme Pro? They are coming as soon as we think that not many translation strings will change.

  2. I think this argument is going to a dead end. What do you actually mean by "Dynamic content, does'nt flow with classical content"?

  3. Again, not true. Of course module positions are supported. Everything is like in Warp7. If you need new ones just let me know here.

  4. Not true, search works. If you have any issues I'm happy to help you. Just open a new support thread.

  5. Instead of complaining, please give us constructive feedback and let us know what's not working and we can fix it right away. Again, please open new support threads for this.

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Avatar nedzad.gruhonjic answered

It would be great to be able to hide sections instead of removing it. Sometimes i just need to hide it for a few days.

6

Avatar dmeimaris answered

I think that a lot of guys in the yootheme community are against yootheme pro. I dont know if we are a minority but it is a shame you moved to yootheme pro according to my opinion. the last template I used is Luna. And I use each theme multiple times. If I were you I would try to measure how many users prefer Yootheme Pro in comparison to your old style and if they are a lot I would continue with Yootheme Pro. If not I would strongly reconsider. In finance it is called a stop loss and sometimes you just have to press that button...

5

Avatar agathe.fert answered

Hi

Although we loved warp (have been using it for years now), the yootheme pro approach makes us very unconfortable.

What we DO need is a visual interface on the joomla module manager. This is what is mainly missing in Joomla/warp. A wysiwyg module manager would be a hit.

Instead YoothemePro ignores a great strenght of Joomla: the template positions. Everything or alomost is done from the article with special tags stored in json. It confuses Joomla!

Moreover providers like us who largely use CCKs (SEBLOD here) can't use YoothemePro since both of them store data in the article. If you use seblod the yootheme page builder is no longer visible in the article editor.

I think providing a page builder is a great idea ... the way it works is just counter productive.

Thanks

5

Avatar pascal.netenvie answered

Hi,

I use Yootheme PRO for some hours to test it and i have some questions :

  1. For now Widgetkit don't seem to work correctly (slideshow images don't display, i only have thumbnails). What's the point ? i use last version of WK and YP ...

  2. When we start using Page builder for an article, this hide all sidebar modules, why this ?
    It is a page builder so sidebar modules should stay on ... How can we manage sidebar modules on all site pages with such a way ?? So ok there is a way to place modules but imagine the work if we have to place all modules manually in page done with builder ...and is this run with display rules (from advanced module manager for example) ?

  3. How to put a full width slideshow in a page done with builder ? An where is slideshow ?

  4. How to hide Website builder icon in backoffice homepage ? We don't want our customers to modify template ...

  5. Why only one module position in top or bottom ? we had 3/4 top before and now only one ... This is not good at all !
    Sometimes we need at top one module full width, then 2 modules half width ... so how can we do this ?

  6. Customization with yootheme_mystyle folder seems ok but it let the way open to any people that can access backoffice to modify main theme setup ... can we migrate theme.css from yootheme css folder to child theme css folder and make the template use it instead of main one (to not load both) ?

  7. How to make per page js/css customization like in warp 7 with theme.config.php ?

  8. The theme.css file is already 306 Kb ... it sounds a bit heavy (was less with warp7). If thought one of the main goal was to do lightweight for mobile ...

I keep working on it ...
So for sure there is good things and it help to build simple page fast. So that's good for endusers if they can understand the tons of parameters they get ...
But for web agency like us i'm not sure it will be a so usefull tool.
And most of all it seems the product is not really achieved. 3 months after launch things are missing and we still have bugs.
Why not lauching some beta and take time to finish it before launching a v1 ?

For now i'm waiting to see more achieved version ... actually i don't know what to think about it.
It seems to be an hybrid product beetween the Joomla template and the solution to make pages without any code.

Cheers !

Edited

5

Avatar vallagruppen answered

Please YouTheme why not just add a feature where you can choose if you want to run You Theme Pro or just want to run Warp.

We have worked with Warp for many many years and now you go from a working solution to something else.

Why not listen to your customers and give us the ability to choose.

You describe that many of your customers do not have the knowledge to build a site, therefore launches you YTP.
I can see the value of YTP but for us developers, you take away a very good working tool.

It should not be so hard to build in a function... I want to use YTP or I want to use the Warp Fraework

Maybe we developers is too small customers group for you?
As developers, we unfortunately had to start looking at similar options for example YJ Framework

What is your plan? Is it to kill Warp once for all?

5

Avatar vallagruppen answered

Please YouTheme why not just add a feature where you can choose if you want to run You Theme Pro or just want to run Warp.

We have worked with Warp for many many years and now you go from a working solution to something else.

Why not listen to your customers and give us the ability to choose.

You describe that many of your customers do not have the knowledge to build a site, therefore launches you YTP.
I can see the value of YTP but for us developers, you take away a very good working tool.

It should not be so hard to build in a function... I want to use YTP or I want to use the Warp Fraework

Maybe we developers is too small customers group for you?
As developers, we unfortunately had to start looking at similar options for example YJ Framework

What is your plan? Is it to kill Warp once for all?

4

Avatar impactdesign answered

My main concern is how impact pagebuilder the SEO. How we can add meta tags, description, keywords as with regular articles in joomla? Excuse my English, I use google translate.

4

Avatar yoosh answered

@ greg.atkinson.4
+1 (and not only) for:
"Long live Warp7."

That's a nice contribution that makes me think about.

Live long and prosper.

4

Avatar webkonturen answered

Hi there,

please, I have only one question. Can somebody be so kind to answer:

Question:

How can my customer easily change text in one of his articles? Does he has to use the Builder???
(If I use JCE editor e.g. in the Horizon template and make changes to the <home>-article, nothing happens)

If this is really true and remains like this, I have absolutely no use for Yootheme Pro. Please tell me, that this is not true :-(

4

Avatar graham.styles answered

At the moment this is true,there are plans for a WYSIWYG editor in the future for Yoo Pro but no timeline has been given yet.
Its now January the 13th and still no sign of an answer!!!!

Edited

4

Avatar akkelien.reitsma.12 answered

After working for several years with yootheme I always loved it, great themes, great support!

I'm sorry to say this but working with yootheme pro is really frustrating. Some things are really cool but a lot what I could do is now harder or not possible. I think the change is to drastic. I feel like I'm in a cage :(

Edited

3

Avatar cappu answered

Sascha, Yootheme developers,

you mentioned now is the perfect time to give feedback. So here is my try:

The overall concept of the new Page Builder is exciting. The flexibility is incredible!!

Anyways, there should be a better way than saving the Page Builder output as JSON object to the Joomla article.
What I would love to see at the end of the day is serverside generated HTML code inside my Joomla article. - I wan't my data (headings, paragraphs, text) visible to search engine robots as well as screen readers. In my optionion SEO and web accessibility is mandatory for a up to date website.

Wouldn't it be possible to save all the data of the JSON object in pure HTML (with attributes and text)? - At least the content part of that data.

2

Avatar ignat.ignatov answered

Hey yooguys,

I too cannot make the builtin multilanguage stuff to work either with the yootheme pro demo or clean joomla with the fuse on top. The main menu is the default one, I somehow can't show the localised menus. Please advise on that issue pls.

2

Avatar tim.sutcliffe answered

When will you be implementing the major upgrades?
What's the timeframe?

M

2

Avatar agathe.fert answered

BUT why in the standard joomla module manager we don't find the same display rules on each module ??

For instance in the module manager the breadcrumb module is still displayed on each page which is now untrue if the yoothemePro layout doesn't include the breadcrumb.

Providing a visual module manager shouldn't conflict with the text parameters we have in the standard module manager according to me

moreover YouthemePRO is incompatible with SEBLOD a major CCK. We have been working with Warp for years but now we should find another framework

thanks

1

Avatar morgan.gustafsson answered

Thanks Sascha for taking the time and providing such a detailed and prompt response!

We are avare that this is a first release and much like earlier releases (even with zoo back in the days) we know Yoo will push this in "the right direction" as times goes by :-)

Then, to be honest, it always takes some time to adjust and get used to a new way of working. I'm no exception and what feels akward at first might be natural once I get used to it.

  1. That would be a great improvement!

  2. Yes, we get that. However we still feel that we "loose contact" with the code working this way. It's about how flexible it is to change, what freedom it gives you to make a small or big change.

  3. I was refering to the process of translating a page/article, how you actually do that? I mean if you have to find the actual page inside the pagebuilder for the language you want to change? I guess thats how it's done? If we want to use Falang for language support on a project then that might be tricky.

  4. Ok, great!

  5. Yes, JSON, but still.... it's Joomla articles. To a Zoofanatic it's like moving back with your parents... When I first heard about Yootheme PRO and your plans I was thinking of a solution where the pagebuilder was like a collection of configurable snippets that generated the markup for you for whatever component (UIKit) you wanted (grid, slideshow,accordion) but still allowed you to make any customizations needed to the code. Saving it as php files that you could edit manually and that was displayed using a Yootheme PRO component or module. That way it would be easier to also link it with the content of your choice. And get the ability to display the generated output as a module as well.

  6. Ok, great!

  7. It would be better but not as good as you have it with Zoo (sorry for comparing Yootheme PRO with Zoo all the time).

  8. Ok, didnt know this, have to test it :-)

To summarize. I still feel we loose control and flexibility working with the pagebuilder as it works now (points 2 and 5) but I can see you are going to adress most of our concerns which is great!

Ok, I will take the time needed (and coffee) to get to know Yootheme PRO better. Maybe it's me, wanting a next level Zoo more than a pagebuilder and that has had me have other expectations of Yootheme PRO than is fair, at least since it's a first release.

1

Avatar jgowans answered

@sascha in a previous support question you indicated that users could continue to use Joomla content as is without pagebuilder. Can you provide an overview of how that would work? For example, how would users leverage WidgetKit in that scenario? I assume that they could use UIKit 3 same as now, or must users go through pagebuilder to leverage both UIKit and WidgetKit?

1

Avatar agustin.ribas.cardona answered

"We think in our previous themes we had a design flaw in general. We used the module position for creating custom pages. For example we had Top A, Top B, Bottom A, Bottom B, etc And sometimes, if needed for specific pages, even C, D, E, ... There was also an option to Hide System Output because of that. So you can build a page just with module positions. All this is historically grown and we think it is a dead end. The new page builder lets you create unlimited sections and you don't need the module positions anymore. It's like an editor to create this stuff. If you look at WordPress (which hasn't a strong module system like Joomla), things went into a different direction. They have a lot of page builders."

I undestand what you are saying, but in dynamic pages (blog, custom component, etc ...) it's important to have a lot of sections like top A, B, C, D, bottom, ... so we can decide if in one row will be one module or 3.

Whant you are saying is to do it with the buider option where we have unlimited sections, but there are only the half of the website.

1

Avatar guido.volkmann answered

I apologize for my posting for about 1/2 week ago, concerning about the new Yootheme PRO. I was so excited about the new features and disappointed about things, that doesn't worked for me as i expected. This was completly wrong n- like sascha commented. Since the update from 2. Nov. all things gone fine and Yootheme PRO is a good thing for me.

Best regards.

Edited

1

Avatar cappu answered

Hi,

Maybe there is a big misunderstanding on what multilanguage means. Usuallly in Joomla you have separate menus for each language - at least as I am used to handle multiple languages.

  • How could we deal and layout the main navigation in two or more languages?
  • How could we deal with the footer - including Joomla and/or Yootheme Subnav in two or more languages?

A tutorial on how to deal with Joomla's mulit language feature would be great.

More details on this thread.

1

Avatar bkdesign answered

It was a bit awkward to get used to, but now, Im loving it! Absolutely loving it. Looking forward to the updates to make it even better.

1

Avatar israel.diaz answered

hello.

What is this joomla pro, I install today... sorry my bad english.

I will like work with the themes and joomla articles and with other modules not limiting to your system that it is not as robust and flexible than joomla.

if you like implement pro perfect but I pay to have themes (you create themes) , if you like work with joomla and hide it to put a framework via web that you have more control...

if you like change rules and not have more theme for joomla , I think it is a very bad decision.

1

Avatar prox answered

Hi Yoo, Happy New Year and all the best for 2017.

I had very nice surprise concerning design when using third party extensions. And the contact form is much better with yootheme pro.

But one feature that has already asked is the ability to assign different styles to different menu item. Like in other warp themes.

I have tried several workaround using child themes. but it didn't work as you can assign only one style per page. Is child themes is only there to keep the changes made to the style when updating ? or is it more powerful ?

I even tried to duplicate styles with the joomla core functionnality, but no better results.

The only work-around i have found that works is to duplicate the yootheme pro theme. So I have (I'm ashamed) 7 copies of the templates only to give the styles to each of my menu items.

Though I know it's not the right way to do the job. For sure it will make my website heavier to load.

@sascha , When talking about page speed optimization. You tell us to add this ability to give a style to a page and another style to another page in the features request.

My question is, will it make my site load slower if you implement this feature in the future ? I mean the assignation of a style to a menu item...

Thanks for any feedback regarding my questions.

Warm regards, winter is coming

1

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

@pascal.netenvie

  1. Widgetkit works with YOOtheme Pro. Please open a single, dedicated support issue for this.

  2. There is logical reason for this. You are not trapped in the inner main content. The page builder allows you to create full layout sections. And you can decide in which of your sections you want to create our custom sidebar.

  3. At the moment, you have to try to build it with the module element (in the page builder) and Widgetkit. Please open a single, dedicated support issue for this to get more help.

  4. Please ask for this in our wish list thread.

  5. Dynamic module positions are high on our todo list. It would solve this issue.

  6. Yes, it works. Please open a single, dedicated support issue for this to get more help.

  7. Yes, it works. Please open a single, dedicated support issue for this to get more help.

  8. You have to look at the gzip numbers. UIkit 3 is around about 19kb gzipped. We think it's awesome fast :-)

Edited

1

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

@moloseb

Dynamic module positions are high on our todo list. We don't want to hard code top-a, top-b, top-c etc. We will use the builder to create these dynamic layouts. This would allow you to create pages the "old way" but I would not recommend that.

Instead, help us to optimize the builder so it works for your customers too. Basically the builder is very similar to Widgetkit. It has also content fields and setting fields. Maybe adding a mode where you can only edit the content fields would be a good idea? So you can not change any layout settings? Like hiding the section and grid icons in the builder. If you think it is a good idea or have something similar in mind please add it to our wish list thread.

0

Avatar vogdux answered

I use the pro version on many websites. In all but one of the update available.
http://vogdux.bget.ru/
It is version 1.0.7. API key is inserted. Please help solve this problem.

0

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

@prox

Having some kind of profiles for theme settings is high on our todo list. But I can't say if it will be possible to selected different styles in the profile. Why would you need two totally different styles for your website? It definitely would be better to use some custom CSS performance-wise. For example create some custom CSS / a modifier class and use it as page class. If you are still sure this is needed, please comment on our wish list and describe/argue why it is better than a custom CSS class modifier.

0

Avatar sascha Yootheme answered

@agathe.fert

This is a misunderstanding. The page builder is not replacing the Joomla module positions. It's just an awesome WYSIWYG editor to create unique custom pages. You use it when the content is just on this custom page and nowhere else used. Creating unique page layouts like we do in YOOtheme Pro, would be a total disaster if you would use module positions.

Our technical implementation (saving json at the page item) is the de-facto standard for modern page builders. We are open for ideas but this is most likely the best solution at the moment.

But sure, we also understand the need for module positions to make other things possible, like having a rich module layout on component pages (blog, shop, etc) and also if you want to display the same content on different pages. This is why adding dynamic module positions to YOOtheme Pro is high on our todo list. We don't want to hard code top-a, top-b, top-c etc. We also want our page builder to create module layouts ;-)

-11

Avatar emmanouil answered

In my point of view, i think that Pro is a great step forward and let me explain.

If you want to create a dynamic section (like a blog) you can do so very easily and almost like the old way. The client would be able to update it like the old way and everyone is happy.

If you want to create static pages you can do it extremely easily now witht the builder. I reduced my work hours to complete a website from 2 weeks to 2-3 days. This is amazing!

If think guys that you have to go a little deaper in the Pro cause honestly is freaking awesome! I can't even imagine go back to warp 7 now, no way!

Sure there are things that missing right now (like custom styles for a specific page for example) but i'm sure that all these things will sort out in the future.

Please Yootheme, keep on rocking with the Pro. I'm loving it!!

(sorry for my English :) )

Edited

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